why do we hate CVT transmissions

"Bricks" (bricks) 05/23/2014 at 12:54 • Filed to: None

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Is it because they are automatics? or is there some deeper reasoning to this. Well anyway, here is a car that we all know will never come with a CVT.

Mazarin > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 12:56

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Witchcraft.

davedave1111 > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 12:56

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It's because almost all CVTs are complete crap, not because there's anything fundamentally wrong with the idea.

CAcoalminer > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 12:56

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A green Carrera on Turbo style wheels. Not bad at all.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 12:57

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Never say never! Who knows what will be happening in 15-20 years time. altho it would be highly unlikely it for sure would not surprise me.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 12:58

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It's an appliance thing. If you have a CVT, it's practically the best way to get maximum power/torque though the drivetrain (i.e. vary the gear ratios to hold the engine at max torque output or max horsepower output).

Porsche will eventually sell a CVT in the 911, since it does have a measurable performance benefit in testing, but sucks all life out of the car for everyone else.

Bricks > CAcoalminer 05/23/2014 at 12:58

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Yeah, I friggin' love me some green.

Slant6 > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 12:58

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They feel weird. You never feel any shifts because there are none. They also rev funny. It's like riding a lawnmower. My mom's Juke has one. The 1.6 turbo is a great engine but the cvt just makes it boring.

pdish > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 13:07

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And here is a car we knew would always come with a manual. Crap

Bricks > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 05/23/2014 at 13:09

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CVTs will probably never make it to high preformance cars, Because they can't handle high torques apparently (although my source is a unverified wikipedia claim, so It's very possible I'm wrong)

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Bricks 05/23/2014 at 13:17

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Eventually they will get the torque limitations worked out. People said the same things about planetary autos taking the place of standard gearboxes for trucks, and look at the progress they are making...

Cé hé sin > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 05/23/2014 at 14:54

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Not much yet, unless you're talking about pickups rather than actual, commercial trucks.They tend to use automated manuals (except in America, oddly enough). There is someone designing a 10 speed torque converter automatic but I don't think it's expected to be a mainstream option for the time being.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Cé hé sin 05/23/2014 at 18:28

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OTR Class 8 tractors tend to still have manual boxes, but even higher end medium duty trucks (F-750) can be equipped with automatics.

It will happen...eventually. Sad, but unfortunately true.

Cé hé sin > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 05/23/2014 at 18:44

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That's one of those unexpected differences in gearbox thinking between Europe and America. Over on the left side of the pond, everyone drives automatics except on large trucks where they pride themselves on being able to manage non synchro boxes, over here everyone drives manuals except those who drive large trucks (I'm guessing without googling it that this is what Class 8 is) who have automated manuals. I actually pored through the Mercedes truck website once and found no reference to the existence of manuals although I'm told that if you really insist they'll make you one.

Older drivers complain about how their job is being down skilled of course and rather look down their noses at those young ones who have it so easy.

Cé hé sin > davedave1111 05/23/2014 at 18:46

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Oh, I don't know. I've driven several CVT Nissan Micras and found them fine. They were better before they replaced the automatic clutch by a torque converter though.

davedave1111 > Cé hé sin 05/23/2014 at 19:06

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I said 'almost all'. And to be fair, cars are so good these days that even crap can be ok-ish.

The problem is that no-one's really building a proper CVT, just half-assed compromises. I have no idea what the Nissan one was like, but maybe it was less compromised than most.

wiffleballtony > Bricks 05/24/2014 at 00:59

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Personally because I feel like the tranng to provide the best economy, not the most fun.

Cé hé sin > davedave1111 05/24/2014 at 04:41

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The Micras were fine for their intended purpose as suburban shopping cars but you wouldn't want to use them on a track day. The latest one did have a great love for top "gear" though and wasn't the best choice for going up hills unless you nailed the accelerator to the floor or pressed what Nissan laughingly call a sport button.

davedave1111 > Cé hé sin 05/24/2014 at 07:28

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Ah, no, that's what I thought you meant. The box is rubbish, but acceptably so if you don't really care.

What annoys me is the fake 'gears' they put in to give people a familiar feel. If I'm going to drive a CVT, I want it to be a proper CVT, with the benefits that brings to offset the downside.

One thing we haven't really alked about here is that you can't really build a CVT transmission on its own. It's a package deal with an engine. If the engine isn't built specifically for the CVT, the whole thing doesn't work as well as it should - imagine what kind of peaky power you could get out of an engine that only needs a 100rpm usable rev range, for example - because you're losing one of the main advantages.

Delusion77 > wiffleballtony 05/26/2014 at 20:15

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which is exactly true. Altho subaru has put one in the WRX claiming it is tuned that version more for performance

Stef Schrader > Bricks 05/27/2014 at 00:11

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With all the other blasphemy Porsche is doing lately to make the 911 less of a moneyed hoon's car and more of a........thing, you know a CVT isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Anyway, I don't hate the CVT. It's better than a conventional automatic. It's a transmission made to find the optimal rev range based on throttle input and stay there. Granted, in practice, they're usually too tuned for economy over lulz, most aren't made to handle much power over stock and they take a bit long to whirr back up to speed after a hairpin or something, but yeah—hate the player, not the game. CVTs are banned from Le Mans and F1 for a reason: because they're awesome.

Stef Schrader > pdish 05/27/2014 at 00:12

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*pours one out*

RIP, GT3. This made coco sad.

Kelvinator > Bricks 06/04/2014 at 20:49

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My JDM GE8 Honda Fit RS has a CVT and i love it. Beats the hell out of a conventional Autotragic around town and in rush hour. Much nicer to drive.

Kelvinator > Bricks 06/04/2014 at 20:51

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Depends what you call a high performance car. The latest model WRX Turbo uses CVT, so we will no doubt start seeing it in more turbocharged cars.